Talk:The Boss (Metal Gear)
Died with Honor or Died in Disgrace? Does the Boss count as Dies with Honored villain, or a Dies with Disgrace villain? On the one hand those who knew about her objective call her a hero, while the rest call her a traitor. So I'm not really sure what she qualifies as. --Venage237 23:49, April 19, 2014 (UTC) :Does it even really matter? I'm also not sure how her objective makes her "heroic." Had this been a Nazi order, she'd be reviled all the same, especially when following orders is NOT the mark of a hero, even if the order is to basically die branded a traitor, if the Nuremberg Trials are anything to go by. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 11:28, March 28, 2015 (UTC) It's possible that she simply died and it wasn't with Honor or Disgrace. Shinigami of the North (talk) 12:41, March 28, 2015 (UTC) Can we please keep her out of "redeemed villains"? Hi. People are placing her into the "redeemed villains" category. However, she really doesn't fit the category since 1., the "crime" she pretty much committed in the official mission was defection, and that was basically a fake defection that backfired thanks to Volgin (assuming the US never planned to backstab her anyhow even without Volgin), so no, she really didn't need to make up for a crime during that time, and 2., she basically had no remorse for what happened or any intention of making up for any atrocities (and blowing up Groznyj Grad and Graniny Gorki despite such an action possibly leading to World War II as well as backstabbing her own allies is not exactly something that's considered good, at the very least). Big Boss actually matches the category more, since at least he actually did have remorse and actually did attempt to make things right in the end. So can we PLEASE keep her off that category? Weedle McHairybug (talk) 13:38, May 9, 2015 (UTC) Thing is she was trying to do what was best for the world, is considered the Big Good, revealing she was good all along would ruin her attempts and I got all this from TVTropes before you think I am just saying gibberish I pulled out of my ass.Jester of chaos (talk) 14:55, May 9, 2015 (UTC) :In case you've forgotten, Volgin also did what he thought was best for the world (or do I have to remind you that he specifically stated when explaining what the Philosophers Legacy was that his goals were basically to heal the rift the Philosophers' infighting left, something that, BTW, The Boss actually agreed with, even voicing similar sentiments during her boss battle), and I should remind you that TVTropes makes a lot of mistakes a few times (and for the record, The Boss blowing up Groznyj Grad and Graniny Gorki, backstabbing her own allies she backstabbed her own allies, or do I have to remind you that she flat out admitted that she sent them to their deaths and backstabbed them, trying to kill Naked Snake are not good things at all, and she even implied that whoever wins, they must fight a lifetime of endless battle. Heck, she even was a hypocrite several times as well, considering she says no one should kill each other, yet she had no qualms nuking a part of Russia late into the game, an action that the story rightfully treated as being exceptionally heinous via Colonel Volgin's earlier actions). And besides, why would she need to be redeemed considering the defection was faked all along? Weedle McHairybug (talk) 15:04, May 9, 2015 (UTC) Yes TV Tropes make mistakes like all things. He was more after the power it would give him and used "for a better world" as mere justification to gain it. Is she and the story somewhat hypocrites? Yep but we go by how the series portrays it. It is implied she was more then happy to die but her code of honor wouldn't let her die without giving it her all and if she won contiue her mission.Jester of chaos (talk) 15:15, May 9, 2015 (UTC) :"Continue her mission"? Wasn't her mission to be killed by Snake? That would mean she failed her mission in that scenario. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 15:18, May 9, 2015 (UTC) That was but I was reffeering to suffering a life time of conflict to help her country but she seemed like she wanted to die more then anything else.Jester of chaos (talk) 15:21, May 9, 2015 (UTC)